[Download this episode](http://www.buzzsprout.com/15622/107177-bootstrapped-episode-15-patrick-mckenzie-patio11-on-selling-software.mp3 "Bootstrapped.fm episode 15"), in which Ian and Andrey are joined by special guest, Patrick McKenzie (patio11), to discuss the "early" days of the Business of Software forums, Patrick's journey and daily routine, Helpdesk systems and support, Appointment Reminder, systemizing and automating daily tasks, SaaS, B2C vs. B2B, pricing of software, consulting, learning from Blackhats, Hacker News, marketing, Uberdeck, making money from open source, dual-licensing, running a conference, hacker meetups, Patrick's biggest mistake in business, Patrick's next product, and Facebook games. Special guest [Patrick McKenzie](https://twitter.com/patio11 "Patrick McKenzie") (patio11) of [Kalzumeus](http://www.kalzumeus.com/ "Kalzumeus"). [Business of Software Forums](http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/?biz "Business of Software Forums") - Joel on Software. [Bingo Card Creator](http://www.bingocardcreator.com/ "Bingo Card Creator") - Patrick's first product. [Appointment Reminder](https://www.appointmentreminder.org/ "Appointment Reminder") - Patrick's second product. [Helpspot](http://www.helpspot.com/ "Helpspot") - Ian's first product. [Snappy](http://besnappy.com "Snappy") - Ian's latest product. [Antair Spam Filter](http://www.antair.com/blackberry/spamfilter/ "Antair Spam Filter") - One of Andrey's first products. [Uberdeck](http://www.uberdeck.com "Uberdeck") - Andrey's latest product [Andy Brice](http://successfulsoftware.net/about/ "Andy Brice"), and his [Perfect Table Plan](http://www.perfecttableplan.com/ "Perfect Table Plan") product. [Jon B](http://jonbho.net/ "Jon B.") and his [ViEmu](http://www.viemu.com/ "ViEmu"), vi emulator for Visual Studio. [Gavin Bowman](https://twitter.com/gavinbowman "Gavin Bowman") [Michael Pryor](https://twitter.com/michaelpryor "Michael Pryor") [Kalzumeus Podcast](http://www.kalzumeus.com/category/podcasts/ "Kalzumeus Podcast") [Teach for America](http://www.teachforamerica.org/ "Teach for America") [Hacker News](https://news.ycombinator.com/ "Hacker News") [Ruben Gamez](https://twitter.com/earthlingworks "Ruben Gamez"), founder of [Bidsketch](http://www.bidsketch.com/ "Bidsketch") [30x500](http://unicornfree.com/30x500 "30x500"), by [Amy Hoy](http://unicornfree.com/ "Amy Hoy") [Micropreneur Academy](http://www.micropreneur.com/ "Micropreneur Academy") [Marco Arment](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Arment "Marco Arment") [Laravel](http://laravel.com/ "Laravel") [Laravel: From Apprentice to Artisan](https://leanpub.com/laravel "Laravel: From Apprentice to Artisan"), by [Taylor Otwell](https://twitter.com/taylorotwell "Taylor Otwell") [Paint.net](http://www.getpaint.net/ "Paint.net") [Binpress](http://www.binpress.com/ "Binpress") [Rails Long Term Support](https://railslts.com/ "Rails Long Term Support")
Download this episode, in which Ian and Andrey are joined by special guest, Patrick McKenzie (patio11), to discuss the “early” days of the Business of Software forums, Patrick’s journey and daily routine, Helpdesk systems and support, Appointment Reminder, systemizing and automating daily tasks, SaaS, B2C vs. B2B, pricing of software, consulting, learning from Blackhats, Hacker News, marketing, Uberdeck, making money from open source, dual-licensing, running a conference, hacker meetups, Patrick’s biggest mistake in business, Patrick’s next product, and Facebook games.